tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19005814.post7395966085280443479..comments2023-10-26T01:37:49.599-07:00Comments on The Evantine Abbey: Can I Get A Witness?Evan B. Wilsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08070442133774056436noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19005814.post-22824539819137390332008-01-29T18:01:00.000-08:002008-01-29T18:01:00.000-08:00Being a KJV or NKJV version nut myself I agree we ...Being a KJV or NKJV version nut myself I agree we need to look at what the varying translations alter. Greek and Hebrew words studies can be fascinating.<BR/><BR/>More posts please Mr. W. I haven't read any that haven't been entertaining or enlightening.bigbuzzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03694899359132721781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19005814.post-71749191134822268592008-01-29T17:29:00.000-08:002008-01-29T17:29:00.000-08:00I know, I just wanted to tease you.I am still worr...I know, I just wanted to tease you.<BR/><BR/>I am still worried that your analysis makes things, not love, and not God fundamental.Colin Clouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11836100534647181995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19005814.post-55042712514094465262008-01-29T16:48:00.000-08:002008-01-29T16:48:00.000-08:00And thank you Big Buzz and Jeff and Matt for your ...And thank you Big Buzz and Jeff and Matt for your kind words and interaction. I do think that Jeff's suggestion on translation is a valid one to bring up.Evan B. Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08070442133774056436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19005814.post-76855790316502235452008-01-29T16:42:00.000-08:002008-01-29T16:42:00.000-08:00Matt,I believe that we ought to imitate God in Lov...Matt,<BR/>I believe that we ought to imitate God in Love. When we share the same standing (i.e. possessiveness) we ought be jealous (as St. Paul was, or as a father over his children or a husband with his wife). When we are functioning on an axis of non-possession (God's kindness to those who are not His children/nonbelievers) we have a non-jealous love. Think of it as the same Greek word for Love framed in different realms. The agape of the sinner is a different axis even than these. When it says in I John to not "love the world or the things in the world" it uses agape. Try forcing the definition in Corinthians into the "love for the world".Evan B. Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08070442133774056436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19005814.post-71678296315270402082008-01-29T15:04:00.000-08:002008-01-29T15:04:00.000-08:00Same more or less here:I wasn't responding to Evan...Same more or less here:<BR/><BR/>I wasn't responding to Evan's post, but to his comment to Jeff. If we say "God is X but we absolutely must not imitate Him" we have problems.Colin Clouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11836100534647181995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19005814.post-11596641721918915502008-01-29T14:26:00.000-08:002008-01-29T14:26:00.000-08:00Sorry, Bigbuzz. I should have said up front that ...Sorry, Bigbuzz. I should have said up front that Evan's post is filled with good stuff. I just had a quibble with the "jealousy" point.<BR/><BR/>And Matt always has something to say. :-)Jeff Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08114418077449866628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19005814.post-54133277325552742002008-01-29T13:47:00.000-08:002008-01-29T13:47:00.000-08:00Pretty funny you two trying to outdo Evan. Great p...Pretty funny you two trying to outdo Evan. Great post Mr. W.bigbuzzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03694899359132721781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19005814.post-75870860119039269792008-01-29T13:00:00.000-08:002008-01-29T13:00:00.000-08:00Here we have exhibit A, Evan claiming that we are ...Here we have exhibit A, Evan claiming that we are not to imitate Christ, and love as Christ loves.Colin Clouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11836100534647181995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19005814.post-36634223367269373352008-01-28T13:13:00.000-08:002008-01-28T13:13:00.000-08:00Jeff, You are correct that jealously is the respon...Jeff, <BR/>You are correct that jealously is the response to possessive love but I would say that "He yearns jealously over the spirit he made to dwell within us"is exactly that. Our love for all is not jealous as we do not claim to possess them. Look again at the II Corinthians passage you cite and see if Paul expresses in it a possessiveness. (hint:he does)<BR/>"Agape does not insist on its own way" while God does, especially in your theology. I am not saying that God is not Love but that the love address in I Corinthians 13 is regarding our encounter with this love.Evan B. Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08070442133774056436noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19005814.post-82626673118768047392008-01-28T12:47:00.000-08:002008-01-28T12:47:00.000-08:00Our eyes bug out as the right reverend doesn't eve...<I>Our eyes bug out as the right reverend doesn't even bother reconciling the idea that while agape love is not jealous, there is a natural jealousy of erotic love.</I><BR/><BR/>"Love (<I>agapē</I>) is not jealous" is not a very good translation of 1 Cor. 13:4b. More accurate would be "Love does not envy" (NKJV, NIV, ESV).<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, in English, "jealousy" is ambiguous; it can mean "protectiveness about what is one's own" or "envy for what belongs to others." Love is not jealous in the second sense, but surely is jealous in the first.<BR/><BR/>Agapē Himself is jealous (Exodus 20:5) and names Himself "Jealous" (Exodus 34:14). The author of 1 Cor. 13, in another letter to the same Corinthians, imitates Him who is Agapē by embodying His own jealousy toward them (2 Cor. 11:2).<BR/><BR/>Love is not envious, but it is (in the righteous sense) jealous.Jeff Mosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08114418077449866628noreply@blogger.com