Wednesday, April 26, 2006

Apocalypterday

Let’s see....
The seven heads of the Sea Beast (Rev. 13:1-10) represented (Rev. 17:10) seven kings.
The Apostle John wrote his vison during the reign of the sixth king. (Rev. 17:10 “”five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come”)
The seven heads also represent 7 mountains.
The world in which the Apostle wrote was dominated by Rome which is built on 7 hills.
It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to go look for a list of Roman emperors.
Starting with the first: “five of whom have fallen”
1] Augustus
2] Tiberius
3] Gaius
4] Claudius
5] Nero

The year of the four emperors (68/69 A.D.). These 3 last only a few months each until Vespasian takes control of Rome.
You can count them, as does Suetonius, making
“One is”
6] Galba (the writing of Revelation?)
“the other has not yet come”
7] Otho

8] Vitellius

Or not count them, as with Ptolemy and Bede, making
“One is”
6] Vespasian (the writing of Revelation?)
“the other has not yet come”
7] Titus

8] Domitian

A question arises noticing I have made a list of 8.
The Earth Beast (Rev. 13:11-18) is identified as an eighth king (Rev. 17:11).
Either Vitellius or Domitian is this Earth Beast.
In Chapter 19 the beast is defeated and cast into the lake of fire.
In Chapter 20 Satan is bound and thrown into the bottomless pit for “1000 years”.
That number is either literal or symbolic.
If symbolic it is a very long time with no way of deciding when that time is up.
If literal, an event like that described on Satan’s release will have happened 1000 years after the end of the beast.
What is described is:
Satan deceives the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle. They march across the earth and surround the “camp of the saints and the beloved city”.
Vitellius dies in 69 + 1000 = 1069
Domitian dies in 96 + 1000 =1096
Either one strike any chords of memory?
How about the First Crusade? 1096
Seems to fulfill some of the requirements of four corners of earth, marching armies, and, if Jerusalem is meant, the beloved city.
If the number is symbolic it is a mighty big coincidence that allows such a major historic event to occur in the year of its literal use.

All the blame or credit for this idea is hereby reposed on the Oracle.

4 comments:

Frank said...

Amazing, I've been mulling this over. I think you're on to something here.

There are speculations on the web that Domitian is the beast,

http://www.lcs.net/users/pastor/Revelation%2013.htm
http://community.gospelcom.net/Brix?pageID=5548

and see the footnote at this website:

http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation13.htm

I think that most Christians hadn’t considered the Crusaders to be the armies of Gog and Magog. The Crusaders of 1096 were by most accounts an unholy lot. From Wikipedia:

"In December, the capture of the Arab town of Ma'arrat al-Numan took place, and with it the first known incident of cannibalism by the crusaders"

Also the author makes this interesting statement about the slaughter in Jerusalem:

"Other accounts of blood flowing up to the bridles of horses are reminiscent of a passage from the Book of Revelation (14:20)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade

Interesting idea....

Nuallain said...

And what does this idea do with verses like Rev 20:5 which is right in the middle of talking about the end of that 1000 yrs in which those who were dead experience "the first resurrection"?

Also, is this prophecy concerning Gog & Magog part of the same event that Ezekiel prophecies in Eze 38? I see no other fulfillment of that prophecy and they seem linked but in Eze 38 we have G&M going to war against "the holy city" with Meshech, Tubal & Cush, Persia, Togarmah, etc. G&M are hard to identify (though Josephus identified them with the Scythians and there seems to be some ancient support for that). But let us say that they are indeed the Crusaders, then we see them going to war against Jerusalem along with these other nations. Now, my recollection is that the surrounding geographic nations fought AGAINST the crusaders, not as their allies. Persia, and some of the others are easy enough to identify and Saladin was what we would today called Kurdish, that is of the house of Togarmah. So I am not seeing this one. Any other proof or interesting evidences?

Oh and I am still waiting on a response to your first post concerning the conduct of a lady. I really was interested in an answer to those questions.

Nuallain

The Oracle said...

Masked,
And there is the abbreviation of Domitian's name which he issued on a coin in Smyrna or Sardis, which the direct numeric account of the letters on the coin equals 666. My name might also but if you have a legitimate contender for the position based on more demanding data, then, at least, that person's name should have a connection to the 666 or the 616.
Nuallain,
Here is my policy. The clear passages define the unclear. All the more in a visionary book when we can affirm any fiction that fits. I feel controlled by the angels identification of the beast and the connection it makes with John's history. There is the first resurrection at the beginning of the 1000 years. I believe there was one but only of the martyred dead. The rest have to wait, good and bad, until the 1000 years were over. The Great White Throne of Judgment occurs after Satan is destroyed with a second resurrection. Notice that this event is for the dead. No mention of the living. In fact the living go on with the New Jerusalem and that is good and bad living. See 22:15
As to Gog and Magog, Ezekial's use has to be considered. We have lost ethnic identification of people groups but the nations of Europe and the Middle East will have connections with a number of those in the table of Nations. This idea is not trying to say that there is a good side and a bad side in this war over Jerusalem (on earth at least). The armies of Islam and Europe I include in the Gog and Magog category, which I only suggest is a metaphor for nations and armies that JOhn's world was unfamiliar with. Could be more direct though.

Also, I'll try to get some time to look back at those questions of The Lady. Busy week.

tmm said...

Mr. Wilson, maybe you started answering this in your response too nuallain's post, but I don't see how this fits some of "the requirements of four corners of earth."

I'm wondering this, because the crusades were very big in our history books, but around 100 AD there were probably about 3 times as many people in far east Asia as there were in the Europe/Middle East area. And the inclusion of a statement like "the four corners of the earth" seems like it would implicate more than 1/4 of the world's population (or, only 1 corner of the earth). The matching with the emperors doesn't seem like coincidence, though, and the precision of the 1096 date seems amazing, so I am open to hearing interpratations in this regard.